Business Overwhelm: When to Hire Someone – TPP6

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We tackle the problems that arise from overwhelm – on teams, as leaders, in businesses big and small – and when it’s time to get some help! We’ll help you identify needs, find get the right people to help you get unstuck.

Sometimes you need another set of eyes no matter what. You reach that breaking point where even if things are tight and the budget is constrained you need to add someone to your team. That's the path to long-term gains. #podcast Click To Tweet

Things We Mention:


Jen: Hello, and welcome to the Third Paddle podcast. I don’t know if you can believe it or not, but Twila and I just had tacos.

Twila: They were delicious. And chips and salsa. You can’t forget the chips and salsa, Jen. The only thing we were missing was a cold, frothy brew.

Jen: I know, but we’re recording Third Paddle podcast.

Twila: I know. And there is happy hour when we get done. So we’re good.

Jen: So we’re good. Oh wow. So we’ve kind of digressed a little. Although, we did talk about tacos at the end of the last episode, [00:00:30] but that was like several days ago, so obviously there was a taco shortage.

Twila: And 7-Eleven burritos.

Jen: I did not have a 7-Eleven burrito, but other people do that.

Twila: I did. Used to.

Jen: Wow. And you can check out the show notes, which has a picture of the little twirly thing. I actually have a YouTube video of it, so you can see what we’re talking about, like the hotdogs rolling on it and stuff. I don’t eat from those, but they entertain me a lot on TV. [00:01:00] So, I guess we should tell people what we’re talking about today.

Twila: That would be great. What are we talking about today, Jen?

Jen: Heck if I know. Oh, wait. Nope, nope. I got it, I got it. I got it right here. Okay. So, this is a really big intersection between business and technology. This is about getting the help you need or not.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Third Paddle podcast, recorded at the Vandal Lounge in the beautiful southeast Portland, Oregon. Why the Third Paddle? Because even the most badass [00:01:30] entrepreneurs get stuck in Business Shit Creek. Tech strategist Jen McFarland and business strategist Twila Kaye are your third paddle, helping you get unstuck.

Jen: Okay. So, Twila, when we talk about identifying if you need help … Let’s think about this in terms of the work that you do with businesses, whether you’re an individual on a team or you lead a company or you’re even a freelancer or solopreneur on your own. How do people go about identifying [00:02:00] if they need help?

Twila: Well, it’s really according to who they are as a person, right? And we’ve talked about those several different types of people that there are in the world. We’ll probably continue to talk about them on every episode because it really does … Everything comes down to who you are as a person and how you communicate, how you operate, how you deviate, and how you accelerate. Right? One of the things, if you’re that person [00:02:30] that is motivated by power and so you like to be able to control your circumstances, you’re a visionary, you’re an automatic leader. You’re the one who right away is taking the leadership role in any team activity or any organization or group or even in a company. You just automatically are placed in a leadership role.

Even the most natural #leaders need help. I'm not afraid to ask for help or hire someone. Are you? #podcast #business Click To Tweet

A lot of times people from the outside can’t see that you need help because you appear [00:03:00] as if you can do it all. And you can, but you do need help. The ways that you know you need help are if you are staying at the office or you’re staying in your work for 15, 16 hours on end, and overworking and becoming that workaholic, that’s a sign that you need help, that you need to reach out. Because what happens is yes, you can do it, absolutely. But should you do it? Should you put your body, your mind, [00:03:30] your family, your life, your social life; should you put everything else at risk to be able to do that?

If those things are important to you; if your family’s important to you, if your marriage is important to you or your relationship with a significant other or even just time for yourself, downtime. If that’s important to you, being that power person, then you need to go ahead and own that and reach out for help, so that you’re not becoming a workaholic [00:04:00] and not disrupting and not paying attention to those things that matter as well.

Jen: Or if you’re leading a team.

Twila: Correct.

Jen: You don’t want to let those people down. I like that. I think it’s interesting that you started with the power dynamic because even the power people need to power down.

What do you do to power down? All work and no play creates business overwhelm. #podcast #business Click To Tweet

Twila: Absolutely. Absolutely they do.

Jen: Just phenomenal.

Twila: And it’s really important when they’re leading a team, too, to do that because not everyone … And you know this, power people out there, you know that very [00:04:30] seldom does someone else operate at the high level that you can operate at the extent that you can operate at. That they actually can work as many hours as you can and as focused as you can. Because of that, you need to understand that you set the example and not to expect everyone to work at your pace, but allow them to work at their pace. If they see you powering down, then that allows them [00:05:00] even more value and validity in their own style, and it doesn’t cause that guilt that other personalities would feel or resentment that some would feel towards themselves and towards you.

Jen: No, I like that. I get that. What about people who don’t really care about power?

Twila: Yeah, so the people who [00:05:30] they’re motivated by their relationships and they’re the analysts of the group and the overthinkers of the group; the ones that like to collect all the data and research before they ever start doing something and put something together. Those people, how you can identify that you need help … And I think, Jen, you and I have discussed this even personally, with you being one of those analytical people that we’re talking about. How you get stuck [00:06:00] in the weeds because you get stuck sometimes too much in the research, too much in the collecting of the data, too much in the workings of everything. How things work, the mechanics of it, instead of … And the logistics of it, instead of the concepts of it.

Gardeners don't like weeds and neither should you. Being stuck in the weeds can be a sign of business overwhelm. #podcast #business Click To Tweet

So, when you’re spending hours doing the research or looking at how things are working and how they can become better and [00:06:30] how the quality of something can become better, and you’re just checking out on everything else and other work is piling up because you’ve spent so much time in that forest and in those weeds, then that’s a good time to recognize that “Hey, maybe I need some help. Maybe I need to give somebody else the project of doing some of this research, while I do some of the other things as well.”

And then for the people who are motivated by fun, like me. In the Color Code, they are the yellows. [00:07:00] Those people who are really kind of carefree about things. Not nonchalant, but just very carefree; we don’t get tied up one way or the other over a situation, we let things go easily. We come in like a lion and leave like a lamb kind of thing. Right? We can identify that we need help when we’re putting things off too much because we’re the biggest procrastinators of them all. [00:07:30] So, sometimes we’re procrastinating not just because it’s something not fun, but because we’re not quite sure how to get it done, but we’ve made the promise to get it done.

Your carefree procrastination could be a sign you're feeling overwhelmed. Don't be afraid to ask for help! #podcast #business Click To Tweet

When you get into that overwhelm, that stuck feeling of “Great, I’ve got to do this, but I don’t know quite how, and it’s going to take me time and I don’t want to take that time right now.” So, you just put it off until you need to burn the midnight oil [00:08:00] and then you’re so stressed because you’re having to learn about everything to even be able to get the job done. You need help. When that procrastination bell starts going off, reach out, get some help.

When you’re the person who is motivated by peace and balance inside and not a lot of chaos and not a lot of things going on around you, one of the best ways that you can recognize that you need help is when you’re in that moment. In that moment of overwhelm and [00:08:30] that feeling when you start getting that feeling that things are just too much, and you’re about ready to check out or you recognize that you have checked out, that’s when you need help.

Jen: That’s so interesting because I come at this from a totally different perspective as someone who’s done a lot of project management, who’s led large teams of people who everybody has a different function. How we identified if we needed help or not [00:09:00] was whether or not people … So, when you work on a large project, there’s a lot of dependencies. So, you can’t do one thing until other things get done, which means … That’s the beauty of a team; you can only do it if everything is gelling and everybody is working together.

What we would find happened was one person would raise a flag and then we’d be like, “Oh.” Because if that person didn’t get help, then you could just see the domino effect and how that would just ripple through everybody. [00:09:30] When things go into bad directions or we run into trouble on teams, is when the flag doesn’t get raised because somebody’s unhappy or scared or they don’t want to look incompetent. Any number of things. And so they just don’t tell anybody and they put it off, and then wham. It’s like, it would have been so much better two weeks ago to know about it. And then you’re just kind of stuck. [00:10:00] It becomes this really challenging time of could-haves, and would-haves and should-haves, whereas if it’s just nipped in the bud at the beginning, then the project wouldn’t even have been off track.

Overwhelm can rip through a team. Encourage your employees to communicate, especially when things get off track. It'll save you thousands of dollars. #podcast #business #teams Click To Tweet

Twila: Right. Exactly. And you brought up a really great point because those feelings that people start feeling, that they start having, are signs themselves to raise the flag, I need help. And it doesn’t matter if you’re on a team or if you are that freelancer [00:10:30] solopreneur. Just to be able to raise that flag and know when to do that and say, “I need help.” And those feelings are that for that power person, it’s the fear to not look good.

Jen: Yeah. Saving face.

Twila: Right. Saving face. When you’re afraid of not looking good to the overthinker and the analyst in the group. There’s that sense is, [00:11:00] “Hey, wait a minute. There’s a fear that this is going to go off track and this isn’t going to be right. We’re not going to get this done right. We’re not going to get it done well.” And then to the yellow, there’s the fear of, “We’re not going to get this done at all because I’ve waited for three days to even do anything and now I found out that I need something else for this, and I’m out of time.”

And then the person who needs that balance and just very [00:11:30] simple things are done, very simply broken down, very simply not a lot of steps to it. It’s just for them, it’s just fear of when they start feeling like it’s just too much, it’s overwhelming. When they get that overwhelming feeling, raise the flag.

Jen: Right. I think that as a solopreneur or a freelancer, you look at things and you say, “Well, yeah. I need help. It’s not a question of if I need help, it’s a question of how and how much time will I lose [00:12:00] and what do I really need help with that somebody else can take on?” In a team situation, the hope is you have somebody else who can provide some coverage. But when you’re on your own, and maybe things are tight; the budget doesn’t really look like you can bring somebody else on, how do you address that?

Twila: It’s interesting that you’re bringing this up because I just had this happen in [00:12:30] our women’s groups; our eWomenNetwork chapter here in Portland. I just had this happen because we have an executive assistant who is sitting in the wings on our leadership team, who’s waiting to have work delegated to her. There’s a couple of us on the leadership team that are like, “Well, we don’t even know what we would need your help with, so we don’t want to start paying you when we’re not even clear on what it is that we need you [00:13:00] to do.”

Well, it wasn’t until she said, “Why don’t you let me step in for a minute and look at all the things that you’re doing, and then I’ll tell you what you can hand to me right away.” And that, I can’t tell you how much that helped and freed up space and opened it up. One, for us to even recognize what could be delegated and what we needed help with, so we knew how to ask for it, and we knew what it was and who we needed for that. But also for her. It gave her [00:13:30] an idea of what she could do for us.

I think if teams implement that type of communication and that type of openness with one another for you to kind of open the books as they say, and peel back that onion and let that person who’s really good at coming in and helping with tasks and project tasks and time tasks and all those things; you get that person that’s really good at handling [00:14:00] that stuff; let them look at everything. They’ll know what you need help with and what you don’t. But that’s a really great point. First, you have to identify what you’re going to need the help for because that will dictate who you need to go find and how you need to get them.

Jen: Who, what, when, where, how.

Twila: Who, what, when, where, how, why. And the why is always the first question, right?

Jen: Why is always the first question.

Twila: You have to answer why you need the help in the first place.

Jen: Sometimes I think you need [00:14:30] another set of eyes no matter what. And sometimes I think you reach that breaking point where even if things are tight and the budget is constrained … Whether it’s a large organization or a single person, I think that what we are really underscoring is the value of another set of eyes and the value of keeping yourself energized.

Sometimes you need another set of eyes no matter what. You reach that breaking point where even if things are tight and the budget is constrained you need to add someone to your team. That's the path to long-term gains. #podcast Click To Tweet

Twila: Absolutely.

Jen: Eyes and energized.

Twila: Yeah.

Jen: The only way you know what you need help with sometimes [00:15:00] is to let somebody else see. It can’t be, “Oh my god, don’t look behind the curtain. You don’t want to see Oz.” You’ve got to peel back the curtain so people know. And sometimes things are … It’s not as bad as you think it is. You just need somebody else, almost to say it’s okay.

Twila: Right. And that was really all she needed to do with us, right? She just needed …

Jen: Oh, with the eWomen example?

Twila: Yeah, for the eWomen example. Really all she needed [00:15:30] to do was say, “Okay. I can do this, this, and this” and “It’s okay.”

Jen: And then it’s like out of your mind.

Twila: [crosstalk 00:15:38] only thing I’d be doing. And now I have another eight hours in my week.

Jen: Right. You can rest easy because somebody else has taken it off of your plate.

Twila: Correct. And it’s getting done right, and it’s getting done well.

Jen: Right. And that kind of leads us into who do you need to help you? So, there’s what do you need? Why do you need it? A lot of the ways of identifying [00:16:00] why you need help involved, just exhausting yourself or exhausting the team or the team starts to disintegrate. Sometimes I’ve worked on teams and you start to see things are just off track and not going well. And that’s a good time to pause and say, “What resources do we need?” Whether it’s a human or a tool or a change in the scope or a change in the timeline. There are all these pushes and pulls within a project. And those pushes [00:16:30] and pulls are scalable to large projects and down to really small projects. You only have so much time, you only have so many resources, you can only take on so much scope. And if you changed any of that, it affects all of the others.

Twila: Absolutely. And affects everyone on the team.

Jen: And affects everyone on the team or affects you as the leader or the solopreneur blazing that trail.

Twila: Right.

Jen: Can we talk for a minute about the technology side on some of this identifying and what … Identifying [00:17:00] you need help, what you need help with and who you need to help you.

Twila: Yeah, absolutely. You could answer these questions just as well on the tech side. How do you even identify that you need help on the tech side?

Jen: Obviously there are times that it’s just essential. Something is broken and there needs to be a break-fix. Let’s just put that on the side for a minute. I think that what we find in [00:17:30] small businesses and large business are inefficiencies. Those inefficiencies are opportunities to really allow technology to take over a portion of the work. I’ve alluded to it before in earlier episodes, but one of the primary examples is double entry. One of the projects I worked on in the past was implementing bar coding. [00:18:00] If you’re receiving a form that somebody has typed in the information, why retype it when the form can generate a barcode and then you’ve reduced all of your data entry by like 95 percent?

Twila: You can use that as a template, right?

Jen: And you use that as a template and you can replicate it across the board. And in fact, in this particular example, we also had partnerships with software providers and we asked them to generate barcodes as well and provided them with specifications. [00:18:30] So, it became a more holistic solution with our partners to make things easier.

It’s one of those things where there are opportunities to really be innovative as a business leader, as … And this is a CEO, CTO, and then all the way down to the solopreneur. I’ll speak for myself because I’m so spoiled, having come from a large company and never having had to do so many things by myself [00:19:00] as a solopreneur out there doing consulting work, providing services. A lot of the stuff, I never had to do it. I had assistants and systems and large infrastructure in place. I never had to worry about it.

Twila: And large budget, and …

Jen: Right. I finally broke down and bit the bullet and paid for Zapier, and made some multi-step zaps that are very complicated, but [00:19:30] they take an intake person, add them to my CRM, do an early proposal template for them, take them through all of these steps so that I don’t have to do all of the data entry.

Twila: And you’re going to be able to do that for us all out here in the never-never land, who are drowning in all of that crap, right?

Jen: Right. And so when people say … and I was one of those people … This isn’t a pitch for Zapier. I don’t do [00:20:00] affiliate links, it’s not my thing. What I’m saying is those ways to save time are available to everybody. I finally had to bite the bullet and say, “Is it worth 20 bucks a month for me to have something that’s going to run through these steps that I hate to do because I’m allergic to data entry?”

Twila: I would say it is because how many hours were you spending on that?

Jen: Exactly. And I was falling behind. [crosstalk 00:20:24]

Twila: Right. And your time is as a solopreneur, as a freelancer, as a company leader, [00:20:30] as a team member at a company. Our time, no matter who we are is money.

Jen: Well, how much do you charge an hour? I’m guessing it’s more than 20 bucks an hour. So, if I’m saving four or five hours …

Twila: Shh. Don’t tell my husband. Shh. We don’t talk about my hourly rate.

Jen: Seven bucks an hour.

Twila: Yeah.

Jen: You’ve got to raise your rates, Twila.

Twila: I work for tacos.

I like business and tacos just as much as Twila and Jen! Listen to the Third Paddle get unstuck! Click To Tweet

Jen: Well, who doesn’t?

Twila: Right.

Jen: [00:21:00] Yeah, so when you really think about it … And that’s when I’m working on the small projects, that’s the main thrust of the conversation, is what is your time worth to you.

Twila: Right.

Jen: If you were staying up all night working on things, what is your time worth to you? At what point is it too much for you to do all of your own content? At what point is it too much for you to manage your own [00:21:30] website? At what point is it too much for you to do all of the data entry?

Twila: Right.

Jen: How much is too much? Do you want to have a life or are you married to your business?

Twila: And that really is dependent on the individual person. We can’t say that too much is when you’re spending four hours a week doing that or three hours a day. It doesn’t matter. It matters to you as a person and what you can handle, [00:22:00] so the best way to know that is to understand yourself and understand your values and your goals. If you’re wanting to put 15 hours a day in, or do you want to back that off?

Jen: Yeah. And if you listen to Grant Cardone or Gary Vaynerchuk, there are a lot of people out there that say you work 20 hours a day and you don’t get … Hustle, hustle.

Twila: [crosstalk 00:22:26] hashtag hustle.

Jen: And you don’t get any sleep and you keep after [00:22:30] it. And then there are studies out there; I’ve read them, I’ve alluded to them in my blog, also, about how we aren’t supposed to multitask because you’re actually less efficient. We aren’t supposed to work with so much because you’re actually more inefficient. And I think that that is something that we all need to weigh, is at what point are we working so much that it’s not efficient. You need to ask your teams out there, leadership, if it’s happening with your [00:23:00] leadership team as well. This isn’t just a problem for freelancers out there; it’s an epidemic in the United States of overworking.

Twila: Absolutely. And I get the hustle. I spent years in my early career in the hustle and 20 hours a day. I’ll tell you, over those years, it suffered. It suffered in the break up of two marriages, [00:23:30] it suffered in bad relationships with my kids being so disconnected from my family that we were hardly even talking. Not because something happened, but just because I was just hustling so much and working so much. And then had a life-threatening disease because of it.

You don’t want to get to that point. You really have to gauge yourself; [00:24:00] how much can you hustle and know that just because a Gary Vaynerchuk or Grant Cardone or those guys … I’m not saying they’re wrong. They’re absolutely right. Every single one of us needs to hustle, but we need to understand what our point of hustle is for ourselves.

Jen: Well, and we need to understand when the hustling becomes harmful. By that, I mean there’s a point at which you’re hustling too hard and you’re pissing people off. There’s also a point at which [00:24:30] you’re working too hard or you’re working your team too hard, and you’re pissing them off. And then your body has a way of saying, “Eh, I’m not going to do this anymore.”

Twila: Right. When your results suffer and your efficiency suffers, when the effectiveness suffers, then it’s time to just shut it down.

Jen: Well, you just need to take a break, or you do what I do and get sick and camp out on the couch for a few days, which is highly inefficient. And I think that that’s when I know I need to back off, is when it’s like, “Okay. I haven’t seen [00:25:00] my family for a while and I’m really tired and just watching Netflix.”

Twila: Right. And we also on the other side of that coin, need to also recognize when we’re using that as an excuse not to hustle. When we’re using the, “I need downtime. I need to take care of myself, I need to take care of my body and my family.” So, no, I can’t put in the hours that it’s going to take. And I’m an entrepreneur. [00:25:30] There does come that point in time where you have to say … Some things you need to suck it up because you’re an entrepreneur or you’re an executive or you’re on a team and things need to get done. So, you may need to hustle on this a little harder and a little longer than normal.

Jen: Certainly. Yeah, no. You need to know when you’re making excuses. If you really don’t like networking, you’ve got to suck it up, buttercup and get out there, as an example.

Twila: Right. Exactly.

Jen: We all have things that we don’t like about our jobs. [00:26:00] This isn’t an excuse to not do those things.

Twila: Correct. It’s also not a reason to kill yourself either.

Jen: Correct.

Twila: And others.

Jen: And that’s I think, when we talk about who you need to help you, the low hanging fruit is where those inefficiencies are within your organization, or those things if you’re on your own that you don’t like to do. Those are the easiest things to say, “Maybe I need help with a bookkeeper or a virtual assistant or an assistant.” [00:26:30] Or somebody to take care of your website. Those are the easy ways to tell.

I will say that when you think about who you need help with, this isn’t always a chance for you to crowdsource who you need help from. Who that person should be. I think that when we talk about something like a website or in the tech realm, there are specialists out there that work on very particular things. [00:27:00] You want to find the person that is working on and in the area that you need most. You wouldn’t hire a networking professional to code a database.

Twila: Exactly. And if you’re a team leader out there … You and I were just talking about this the other day when we were talking about hiring a graphic designer or web developer or anyone in that realm, that one of the best ways to know if you’re talking [00:27:30] to the right person or not is to ask them to actually do something for you as your vetting and interviewing process for them.

Jen: Yeah. When I worked in graphic design …

Twila: Talk about that.

Jen: Yeah, no. When I worked in graphic design, one of my favorite things to do when we would interview people is to come up with a test. And I took it with me. We did it … Early on I worked at Grubb & Ellis, a commercial real estate company here in Portland, and we came up with a test, and then I just took it with me to every employer in graphic design I had after that. It was fabulous [00:28:00] because people can say that they do things all the time and then you sit them down at a computer and say, “I want you to create this flyer” or “Do this.” And it’s very simple, but it just shows knowledge within the technical areas that you need. We’ve had people just not perform. It’s not that they were lying, it was just their skill set was a little different than what we were actually looking for. And it’s a fabulous way to gauge that.

I also [00:28:30] encourage people to ask for work samples and ask a lot of questions ahead of time when they’re hiring somebody. I wrote a blog post as well … When you said a graphic designer or web developer, two words that people use interchangeably are web designer and web developer. Those are two different things.

Twila: Very different.

Jen: Even though the words often get used interchangeably. So, check out that blog post if you’re interested in that. That’s on the Foster Growth website. [00:29:00] It goes into some of the details because sometimes they charge different rates, for one thing.

Twila: Right.

Jen: And another thing is if you’re looking for something specific, then you need to make sure you have the right person. But also, if you’re asking, say, your web developer a question and they’re getting angry or stalling or something, it could be that you actually need design work and not developer work, and vice versa. And that’s the same [00:29:30] down the line within a company at any point, is when people seem stressed and they’re stalling, it usually means they need help. It’s not …

Twila: Correct.

Jen: I think that what we forget sometimes is that everybody wants to do a good job at the heart of it. And when people aren’t performing, that’s typically a sign that something is wrong. It doesn’t mean the position is that they’re a horrible person.

Twila: Correct. [00:30:00] Or they’re not even the right person for that job. It just means that there’s something wrong. They either don’t have enough information to move forward, they don’t quite know what to do and they don’t want to look bad, so they’re not going to flag the help. Or it’s just too much; it’s too overwhelming and they don’t know how to simplify it.

Jen: Or there’s just too much.

Twila: Or there’s too much.

Jen: To simplify.

Twila: Right.

Jen: [00:30:30] I think that as managers and as leaders, if we can take the position of good, that the person has their heart in the right place and then move from there, typically you’re going to get the result that you want. Poor performance, if it really is from a position of bad, that will bear itself out. But seeking the bad when it’s not really there, hurts teams, hurts companies, [00:31:00] hurts solopreneurs. That’s actually the worst thing that you can do, is to go in assuming bad things.

Twila: I think you just identified another episode for us, really. Come in from that bad thing and how not to do that for anything; for your tech or for your people.

Jen: Right. So, do you have anything that you wanted to add to who you need to help you?

Twila: I don’t think so. I think really [00:31:30] we talked about it. Once you identify the why and the what you need help, I think who is going to start revealing itself because you can take the certain characteristics and traits of whatever it is that you’re needing to have done and identify the type of person that’s going to be best for that, and how to find them. And then, if it is that you’re actually having to bring someone on the team, whether [00:32:00] you’re a company leader or you’re an entrepreneur or freelancer and you’re going to have to outsource something to know how to know if those people can do what it is that you need them to do. The best way, we discussed it, is to have them do it. Just to have them do a little piece of it; show you some work that’s very comparable to what you’re having them do and how they did it. Just ask those questions, be curious. Be [00:32:30] curious about them and the things that they’ve done, and ask a lot of questions.

Jen: Yeah, I love that. You know I love questions.

Twila: I know.

Jen: It’s one of my favorite things.

Twila: That’s why we do this the way we do because we both love questions.

Jen: It really helps to get the answers. And not just any answer or even the right answer, but being able to look at a lot of different approaches actually helps to broaden all of our perspectives so that we can deliver the best product [00:33:00] possible.

Twila: Absolutely. And I think every leader, no matter what type of leader you are if you just became and stayed curious and asked a lot of questions, you would be extraordinary at what you do. Extraordinary.

Jen: Well, and then listen to the answers.

Twila: Listen to the answers.

Jen: Don’t just think about what you’re going to say next.

Twila: Right.

Jen: Yeah.

Twila: All right.

Jen: Well, I guess that solves it. We’re going to rule the world now. Done.

Twila: [00:33:30] We just solved all the world’s problems. Be curious.

Jen: Be curious. So, with that, I think that’s a wrap. Thank you for listening to the Third Paddle podcast. We would love to hear your questions or comments. You can email us at or please visit our website and listen to episodes and subscribe. That would be And with that, Twila, I’m going to say bye.

Twila: Yeah, thanks so much. Subscribe.

Announcer: [00:34:00] Thank you for listening to the Third Paddle podcast. If you like our show and want to learn more, check out our website at, or leave us a review on iTunes. Send questions or topic ideas to and don’t forget to tune in each week to get even more technology and business tips to help you navigate Business Shit Creek. The Third Paddle podcast is sponsored by Foster Growth online at [00:34:30] and Twila Kaye International online at

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